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	<title>Comments on: Commoncause.org is a spammer</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/</link>
	<description>the mark cuban weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Jim Jones</title>
		<link>http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14529</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogmaverick.wordpress.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder how far Broadcast.com would have gotten in its early days if the &quot;tiered&quot; Internet were already in place?More than likely, Broadcast.com wouldn&#039;t have been able to afford a quality &quot;preferred distribution channel&quot;, stream quality would have sucked, and Mr. Cuban would still be managing the local Bonanza.Respectfully, Jim Jones]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how far Broadcast.com would have gotten in its early days if the &#8220;tiered&#8221; Internet were already in place?</p>
<p>More than likely, Broadcast.com wouldn&#8217;t have been able to afford a quality &#8220;preferred distribution channel&#8221;, stream quality would have sucked, and Mr. Cuban would still be managing the local Bonanza.</p>
<p>Respectfully,<br />
 Jim Jones</p>
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		<title>By: Hubert Chen</title>
		<link>http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14530</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hubert Chen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogmaverick.wordpress.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tiered internet service didn&#039;t make sense in the early days of the net, because no one had any idea what sort of applications would be built. Once the applications were built then you can start to charge for a premium service. They didn&#039;t build toll roads before cars were widely accessible.I honestly don&#039;t see what the big problem is with carriers charging for different Quality of Service(QoS) levels. If the carriers still had a monopoly on internet access then maybe regulation would be justifiable. But with reasonably good competition, there&#039;s no need to enforce net neutrality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tiered internet service didn&#8217;t make sense in the early days of the net, because no one had any idea what sort of applications would be built. Once the applications were built then you can start to charge for a premium service. They didn&#8217;t build toll roads before cars were widely accessible.</p>
<p>I honestly don&#8217;t see what the big problem is with carriers charging for different Quality of Service(QoS) levels. If the carriers still had a monopoly on internet access then maybe regulation would be justifiable. But with reasonably good competition, there&#8217;s no need to enforce net neutrality.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob B.</title>
		<link>http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14531</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogmaverick.wordpress.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14531</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I still agree with Mark&#039;s orginal comments and some here. With commerical &quot;need or die&quot; applications that consume global networks they need higher priority to run their business than I do with my late night bit-torrent. The age of mobility is only growing as more and more things become &quot;on the go&quot;. I&#039;d rather have a heart monitor program or my Brinks alarm system getting priority on the internet. Neutrality is not important, all things are not created equal, it&#039;s a principle of life.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still agree with Mark&#8217;s orginal comments and some here. With commerical &#8220;need or die&#8221; applications that consume global networks they need higher priority to run their business than I do with my late night bit-torrent. The age of mobility is only growing as more and more things become &#8220;on the go&#8221;. I&#8217;d rather have a heart monitor program or my Brinks alarm system getting priority on the internet. Neutrality is not important, all things are not created equal, it&#8217;s a principle of life.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian McWilliams</title>
		<link>http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14532</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian McWilliams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogmaverick.wordpress.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark, blame the &quot;spam&quot; on Kintera, Inc., the company that (mis)manages the CauseNet email newsletter. I blogged something about this here:http://spamkings.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/kintera_cuban_and_common_cause.htmlBrian]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, blame the &#8220;spam&#8221; on Kintera, Inc., the company that (mis)manages the CauseNet email newsletter. I blogged something about this here:</p>
<p><a href="http://spamkings.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/kintera_cuban_and_common_cause.html" rel="nofollow">http://spamkings.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/kintera_cuban_and_common_cause.html</a></p>
<p>Brian</p>
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		<title>By: Padraic</title>
		<link>http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14533</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Padraic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogmaverick.wordpress.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The best part about the form letter is that you can&#039;t unselect any of the five exec&#039;s mentioned.  How does that help free minded individuals?I agree, let the market figure out what works best, keep the regulators out of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best part about the form letter is that you can&#8217;t unselect any of the five exec&#8217;s mentioned.  How does that help free minded individuals?</p>
<p>I agree, let the market figure out what works best, keep the regulators out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott R</title>
		<link>http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14534</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott R]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogmaverick.wordpress.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14534</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I do agree that if someone wants to pay more for a faster internet experience, let them pay it. I do not feel it is wise not to have some level of regulation (I am sure I will make some enemies for this comment). There is NOT enough competition in most areas to allow ISP&#039;s self regulation. With the SBC/AT&amp;T acquisition and now AT&amp;T and Bell South, this leaves even less competition, especially in rural areas.If the ISP are left to their own accord and someone wants to use Skype or Vonage for VOIP, I would bet all of Mark&#039;s money that AT&amp;T will make it a financially burden not to use AT&amp;T’s VOIP solution if you use AT&amp;T as your ISP. Unfortunately there is not a win-win scenario for this argument, at some level someone loses, because there will not be enough competition. More than likely it will be Skype or Vonage that lose because the public will save a few bucks per month to make their ISP rich by using their preferred services.I am not against capitalism and my mortgage gets paid because my company profits from people buying our product. I just do not like the bigger, deeper pockets forcing their inferior products on the public by squeezing the little guy out. Because once that happens they can charge any price they want and the public eventually loses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I do agree that if someone wants to pay more for a faster internet experience, let them pay it. I do not feel it is wise not to have some level of regulation (I am sure I will make some enemies for this comment). There is NOT enough competition in most areas to allow ISP&#8217;s self regulation. With the SBC/AT&#038;T acquisition and now AT&#038;T and Bell South, this leaves even less competition, especially in rural areas.</p>
<p>If the ISP are left to their own accord and someone wants to use Skype or Vonage for VOIP, I would bet all of Mark&#8217;s money that AT&#038;T will make it a financially burden not to use AT&#038;T’s VOIP solution if you use AT&#038;T as your ISP. Unfortunately there is not a win-win scenario for this argument, at some level someone loses, because there will not be enough competition. More than likely it will be Skype or Vonage that lose because the public will save a few bucks per month to make their ISP rich by using their preferred services.</p>
<p>I am not against capitalism and my mortgage gets paid because my company profits from people buying our product. I just do not like the bigger, deeper pockets forcing their inferior products on the public by squeezing the little guy out. Because once that happens they can charge any price they want and the public eventually loses.</p>
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		<title>By: Padraic</title>
		<link>http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Padraic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogmaverick.wordpress.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Scott,You bring up some good points about creating government oversight.  The problem is that the government indirectly created the monopolies through regulation thus reducing competition.  The various municipalities are addicted to the revenue generated from the fees that they charge the Telcos and cable companies.  The fees along with the resources needed to comply with the insanely complex and immense regulation requirements increase the costs to those providers.  If, in a deregulated environment, the cable companies begin to overcharge their customers, then other technologies become relatively cheaper creating entrepreneurial opportunities and efficiencies reducing costs.  Additionally smaller towns and areas that are passed over by the large corporations can be serviced by local companies.  This has worked well in rural areas of my state and the costs that the local companies charge are comparable to the larger cities.  The market could easily support different service levels.  Again if one company charged more than the market would bear, pricing pressures from competitors and technology improvements would bring the costs down.  The Telecommunications act of 1994 (removing some, but not nearly enough of the regulations) dropped long distance rates to just a fraction of their previous levels, assuming you make your long distance calls out of state.  Yet if you make the LD call within the same state, then it’s more expensive because the State government gets in the way causing higher costs, etc.  Going a step further (and I realize you are in no way advocating my next point) when the infrastructure becomes a full blown public works effort the government loses money and a lot of it.  One example is the Ashland Fiber Network developed and paid for by the City of Ashland, Oregon.  They are desperately trying to sell the network to a private company to recoup just some of the expense.  I’m afraid I may have gone off on a tangent from Mark’s original post.  Going back on topic, imagine how these types of organizations (not just this one) that do everything but hit the send button would react if they suddenly had to pay more to send out massive numbers of emails.  Now imagine how much more effective their campaign would be if the users who wish to send an email on this topic wrote it themselves and sent it from their personal account.  Rather than setting up a filter like Mark had to do, he would have to sort though each and everyone ïŠPadraic]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,</p>
<p>You bring up some good points about creating government oversight.  The problem is that the government indirectly created the monopolies through regulation thus reducing competition.  The various municipalities are addicted to the revenue generated from the fees that they charge the Telcos and cable companies.  The fees along with the resources needed to comply with the insanely complex and immense regulation requirements increase the costs to those providers.  </p>
<p>If, in a deregulated environment, the cable companies begin to overcharge their customers, then other technologies become relatively cheaper creating entrepreneurial opportunities and efficiencies reducing costs.  Additionally smaller towns and areas that are passed over by the large corporations can be serviced by local companies.  This has worked well in rural areas of my state and the costs that the local companies charge are comparable to the larger cities.  </p>
<p>The market could easily support different service levels.  Again if one company charged more than the market would bear, pricing pressures from competitors and technology improvements would bring the costs down.  The Telecommunications act of 1994 (removing some, but not nearly enough of the regulations) dropped long distance rates to just a fraction of their previous levels, assuming you make your long distance calls out of state.  Yet if you make the LD call within the same state, then it’s more expensive because the State government gets in the way causing higher costs, etc.  </p>
<p>Going a step further (and I realize you are in no way advocating my next point) when the infrastructure becomes a full blown public works effort the government loses money and a lot of it.  One example is the Ashland Fiber Network developed and paid for by the City of Ashland, Oregon.  They are desperately trying to sell the network to a private company to recoup just some of the expense.  </p>
<p>I’m afraid I may have gone off on a tangent from Mark’s original post.  Going back on topic, imagine how these types of organizations (not just this one) that do everything but hit the send button would react if they suddenly had to pay more to send out massive numbers of emails.  Now imagine how much more effective their campaign would be if the users who wish to send an email on this topic wrote it themselves and sent it from their personal account.  Rather than setting up a filter like Mark had to do, he would have to sort though each and everyone ïŠ</p>
<p>Padraic</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Harris</title>
		<link>http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14536</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick Harris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogmaverick.wordpress.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t see why everyone cries so much about tiered service, haven&#039;t we been on tiered service for years?  I switched from tier-1 dial-up to tier-2 DSL years ago.  That being said, IMO thats how we need to define the tiers in terms of bandwidth, not in terms of content.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see why everyone cries so much about tiered service, haven&#8217;t we been on tiered service for years?  I switched from tier-1 dial-up to tier-2 DSL years ago.  That being said, IMO thats how we need to define the tiers in terms of bandwidth, not in terms of content.</p>
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		<title>By: Brock</title>
		<link>http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14537</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogmaverick.wordpress.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t really have a philosophical problem with tiered service, but I guess I&#039;m just wondering how it would actually work.  It takes about 25 hops from me to blogmaverick.com, across at least 5 networks.  My connection to blogmaverick is only as fast as the slowest network or router along the way.  Given routing algorithms which were designed in the 70&#039;s for nuclear-proof reliability and re-routability rather than optimal speed, I just don&#039;t understand how such a thing would work.  It would require a very high level of cooperation across all ISP&#039;s along the chain.  What if I pay for this service from my ISP, but the blogmaverick.com network doesn&#039;t pay for access to the same nets?  Kind of wastes my money, doesn&#039;t it?  I really just don&#039;t know how such technical leaps can be taken without fundamentally screwing with the fundamental IP-routing fabric of the Internet.  It&#039;d be great if it could happen, but we&#039;re talking about at least a decade before it can all be well-designed and finally trickle down to all Internet users.  Think about it: Cisco and other companies will have to come out with new routers and other equipment, at all levels of the network (from fiberoptic backbone to home WiFi).  Operating systems programmers would have to rewrite their network stacks.  IP devices such as phones, televisions and anything else would have to be upgraded.If you&#039;ve got a link or some explanation of how it can happen, or current plans to make it happen, I&#039;d be happy to read it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really have a philosophical problem with tiered service, but I guess I&#8217;m just wondering how it would actually work.  It takes about 25 hops from me to blogmaverick.com, across at least 5 networks.  My connection to blogmaverick is only as fast as the slowest network or router along the way.  Given routing algorithms which were designed in the 70&#8242;s for nuclear-proof reliability and re-routability rather than optimal speed, I just don&#8217;t understand how such a thing would work.  </p>
<p>It would require a very high level of cooperation across all ISP&#8217;s along the chain.  What if I pay for this service from my ISP, but the blogmaverick.com network doesn&#8217;t pay for access to the same nets?  Kind of wastes my money, doesn&#8217;t it?  I really just don&#8217;t know how such technical leaps can be taken without fundamentally screwing with the fundamental IP-routing fabric of the Internet.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;d be great if it could happen, but we&#8217;re talking about at least a decade before it can all be well-designed and finally trickle down to all Internet users.  Think about it: Cisco and other companies will have to come out with new routers and other equipment, at all levels of the network (from fiberoptic backbone to home WiFi).  Operating systems programmers would have to rewrite their network stacks.  IP devices such as phones, televisions and anything else would have to be upgraded.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve got a link or some explanation of how it can happen, or current plans to make it happen, I&#8217;d be happy to read it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted</title>
		<link>http://blogmaverick.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14538</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogmaverick.wordpress.com/2006/03/08/commoncause-org-is-a-spammer/#comment-14538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That isn&#039;t spam, it&#039;s a political campaign.  I&#039;m sure that the people sending those letters have the option to change the text if they want--many organizations do that, the ACLU for example--but there is a default text in case people can&#039;t or won&#039;t articulate their individual position.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That isn&#8217;t spam, it&#8217;s a political campaign.  I&#8217;m sure that the people sending those letters have the option to change the text if they want&#8211;many organizations do that, the ACLU for example&#8211;but there is a default text in case people can&#8217;t or won&#8217;t articulate their individual position.</p>
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