Comments on: NBA All Stars by the Numbers http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/ the mark cuban weblog Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:24:11 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: hrewj http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/#comment-63577 hrewj Thu, 09 Apr 2009 06:48:06 +0000 http://blogmaverick.com/?p=1131#comment-63577 <a href="http://www.ed-hardy-shirts.com" rel="nofollow">Ed Hardy shirts </a> Ed Hardy shirts

]]> By: steve http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/#comment-61663 steve Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:57:24 +0000 http://blogmaverick.com/?p=1131#comment-61663 "You don’t work hard for 8 years on something that is garbage (and then post the results on the ‘net). " why not? History (and the Bush presidency) are full of wasted years, often in 8 year chunks. The ultimate goal of statistics is to both capture and predict performance, value and the future. That is why insurance actuaries develop these massive tables ; to calculate risk. The mortgage crisis however shows us that sometimes derivative calculations can be fundamentally flawed, based on erroneous assumptions. The problem with taking arbitrary (or well meaning) subsets of data out of the large pool available is that you invariably leave out elements which are contributory or have real value. How many of these performances occur on back to backs, or at the end of a long road trip? What about injury? What about proximity to the trade deadline? or a contract year? "lineup evaluation system" But what is a lineup? simplest way to say it: A combination of 5 players on the court designed to win the ball game. But we have offense/defense line ups, designed to win yes, but with a subset goal to get a stop or a score, and of course we have the "hack a shack" or similar lineups.... Do these 'efficiency' statistics take into account that they may be self-limiting? a player making 30 points (and on a pace to make 59) makes "only" 31 points because the coach pulls him after the 3rd quarter? What about the coach? Terry Porter vs Mike Dantoni? Offensive philosophy? What about "lineup balance"? Is this guy a good Forward because he is intrinsically good or is it because his team is 'thin' at that position? I suspect that these statistics are like other "collectibles" that men collect, because, its what we do! Collect and store up all kinds of meaningless shit and give it more value (because we've collected it) “You don’t work hard for 8 years on something that is garbage (and then post the results on the ‘net). ”

why not?

History (and the Bush presidency) are full of wasted years, often in 8 year chunks.
The ultimate goal of statistics is to both capture and predict performance, value and the future. That is why insurance actuaries develop these massive tables ; to calculate risk. The mortgage crisis however shows us that sometimes derivative calculations can be fundamentally flawed, based on erroneous assumptions.

The problem with taking arbitrary (or well meaning) subsets of data out of the large pool available is that you invariably leave out elements which are contributory or have real value. How many of these performances occur on back to backs, or at the end of a long road trip? What about injury? What about proximity to the trade deadline? or a contract year?

“lineup evaluation system”
But what is a lineup? simplest way to say it: A combination of 5 players on the court designed to win the ball game. But we have offense/defense line ups, designed to win yes, but with a subset goal to get a stop or a score, and of course we have the “hack a shack” or similar lineups….

Do these ‘efficiency’ statistics take into account that they may be self-limiting? a player making 30 points (and on a pace to make 59) makes “only” 31 points because the coach pulls him after the 3rd quarter? What about the coach? Terry Porter vs Mike Dantoni? Offensive philosophy?
What about “lineup balance”? Is this guy a good Forward because he is intrinsically good or is it because his team is ‘thin’ at that position?

I suspect that these statistics are like other “collectibles” that men collect, because, its what we do!
Collect and store up all kinds of meaningless shit and give it more value (because we’ve collected it)

]]> By: Mike http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/#comment-61657 Mike Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:57:43 +0000 http://blogmaverick.com/?p=1131#comment-61657 to everyone complaining about how this system is worthless because Kobe is 15th, you all need to realize that this is NOT the only thing is being used to evaluate players this is one of the millions of tools that owners, gms, etc. use and yes it is useful info. just because Kobe is not number 1 or 2 doesnt invalidate it. he put up 50 against phoenix and yet the lakers lost to a team not headed for the post season. this formula is telling you which players deliver the most when needed and when it counts. did you all know that Kobe is 9th in the league this year at making game deciding shots??? while Lebron, DWade, Ray Allen, Joe Johnson are all ahead of him, just like in this stat sheet. no one is saying Kobe is not one of the top 3 players in the game right now this stat is merely looking at one of a million things. to everyone complaining about how this system is worthless because Kobe is 15th, you all need to realize that this is NOT the only thing is being used to evaluate players this is one of the millions of tools that owners, gms, etc. use and yes it is useful info. just because Kobe is not number 1 or 2 doesnt invalidate it. he put up 50 against phoenix and yet the lakers lost to a team not headed for the post season. this formula is telling you which players deliver the most when needed and when it counts. did you all know that Kobe is 9th in the league this year at making game deciding shots??? while Lebron, DWade, Ray Allen, Joe Johnson are all ahead of him, just like in this stat sheet.

no one is saying Kobe is not one of the top 3 players in the game right now this stat is merely looking at one of a million things.

]]> By: Wondering... http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/#comment-60640 Wondering... Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:17:06 +0000 http://blogmaverick.com/?p=1131#comment-60640 So where's your context-neutral metric? So where’s your context-neutral metric?

]]> By: Pete Skomoroch http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/#comment-60534 Pete Skomoroch Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:40:51 +0000 http://blogmaverick.com/?p=1131#comment-60534 Check out Brad Stenger's charts at NBA Graphs... http://nbagraphs.tumblr.com/ NBA Graphs visualizes basketball game data by showing the second-by-second +/- information for each player playing in a horizontal histogram. You can really pick out the player-player dynamics and coaching decisions in a game. Check out Brad Stenger’s charts at NBA Graphs…

http://nbagraphs.tumblr.com/

NBA Graphs visualizes basketball game data by showing the second-by-second +/- information for each player playing in a horizontal histogram. You can really pick out the player-player dynamics and coaching decisions in a game.

]]> By: Back to Battier « The Wages of Wins Journal http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/#comment-60311 Back to Battier « The Wages of Wins Journal Thu, 19 Feb 2009 04:51:03 +0000 http://blogmaverick.com/?p=1131#comment-60311 [...] few more details on plus-minus.  Earlier in the month Mark Cuban - owner of the Dallas Mavericks - posted a plus-minus evaluation of a number of NBA players.  Bialik sent these numbers to Roland Beech - of 82games.com - and received this [...] [...] few more details on plus-minus.  Earlier in the month Mark Cuban – owner of the Dallas Mavericks – posted a plus-minus evaluation of a number of NBA players.  Bialik sent these numbers to Roland Beech – of 82games.com – and received this [...]

]]> By: SLAM ONLINE | » Old Vets New Roles http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/#comment-60252 SLAM ONLINE | » Old Vets New Roles Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:45:57 +0000 http://blogmaverick.com/?p=1131#comment-60252 [...] six of seven. Coincidence? Mark Cuban, never one for anything outrageous, wrote recently about a statistical formula that Dallas uses to evaluate every player in the L. LeBron is numero uno; Kidd is second. We’re [...] [...] six of seven. Coincidence? Mark Cuban, never one for anything outrageous, wrote recently about a statistical formula that Dallas uses to evaluate every player in the L. LeBron is numero uno; Kidd is second. We’re [...]

]]> By: BillH http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/#comment-59959 BillH Tue, 17 Feb 2009 03:32:24 +0000 http://blogmaverick.com/?p=1131#comment-59959 Pretty good measurement of just how important certain players are to their teams. It takes more than scoring a lot of points or getting a lot of rebounds to win championships - if he were alive, you could ask Wilt Chamberlain about that. Pretty good measurement of just how important certain players are to their teams. It takes more than scoring a lot of points or getting a lot of rebounds to win championships – if he were alive, you could ask Wilt Chamberlain about that.

]]> By: Palms Hotel & Casino http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/#comment-59934 Palms Hotel & Casino Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:46:18 +0000 http://blogmaverick.com/?p=1131#comment-59934 This info, in excel, would be epic! This info, in excel, would be epic!

]]> By: James http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/08/nba-all-stars-by-the-numbers/#comment-59877 James Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:01:56 +0000 http://blogmaverick.com/?p=1131#comment-59877 If you enjoyed this post, you'll enjoy this NY Times article by Michael Lewis about Shane Battier of the Rockets. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html If you enjoyed this post, you’ll enjoy this NY Times article by Michael Lewis about Shane Battier of the Rockets.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html

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